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what pisses me off (rant about TERFs and some progressive activists)

TERFS SUCK SO BADPOLITICAL OPINIONLEFTIST RANTS


You know what pisses me off a lot? 

This weird idea of conservative (and progressive) action that some people have, esp when they advocate and argue for change or regression. 


I think a lot of people have their ideas of how the world is SUPPOSED TO or SHOULD work, and then push their activism by trying to apply standards and morals from their hypothetical reality onto our current society and condemn other people for not meeting that vision currently.


    For example, some queer activists (from my experience often in slavic and russian-speaking spaces) insist that LGBTQ people are the norm, and to me it's just conflicting with the reality of the situation. Unfortunately, this community is heavily oppressed, harassed, assaulted, ostracized and overall just rejected by a larger society. Society doesn't treat them as the norm. Unfortunately, you can't just ignore that we're not there yet, that we're at a point where an average joe is homophobic. While I can argue with some people online, I still  personally will not get outraged that a person down the street is homophobic, as much as I want the opposite to be the case. I would more think abt what we can do to change this perception of ours and how to care for your community. I just think this tactic only ever works if you try to ragebait, argue, or get a reaction out of homophobes 


    What I want to rant abt even more is how this applies to TERF mfs. Most are gender abolitionists, and oh boy will they let you know abt it. I remember talking with one TERF and she was like "yo I support feminism, but not trans people because I wish gender didn't exist at all and trans people perpetuate it. There shouldn't be men or women, I'd like for sex to exist but never be the focus of attention, while remaining important in contexts like medicine and sports since women, men and intersex people have different physiologies" 


    And like... leaving out many incorrect, illogical and contradictory things these statements contain.. Too bad we're not there yet!!! Currently our society is VERY gendered, with no big global movement to wither gender away on a radar. ( I don't even think gender is inherently harmful, I'm a gender pluralist who thinks you can transform gender from an enforced institutional and social system into a form of voluntary cultural expression, as in something akin to a subculture.) There is no reasonable or logically consistent way to judge trans people for simply navigating this gendered society just like any cis person would. Unless you uphold cis people for the same standard, in which case, you're just as much of a moron.


    This exclusionary gender abolitionism doesn't even align with reality, cuz no TERF could ever logically explain to me how this obviously wrong and misleading framing of trans people can be the case if gender non-conforming and non-binary trans people exist. Moreover, you're punching down on people who DECONSTRUCT gender with their sole existence. And historically, DECONSTRUCTION CAN OFTEN LEAD TO ABILITION! like what is this logic???!!!??


    All this to say, a TERF telling me that we should hate trans people because "I believe in gender abolition" is the same thing to me as some dude going to the most impoverished parts of the world and telling them "I'm an anti-capitalist and we should, like... stop using money... because money is, like, evil and bad!!" and meanwhile they're in a capitalist society that is nowhere close to a revolution where your very survival depends on having and using money. You just sound naive, out of touch, and dumb.

(I'm an anti-capitalist btw, just in case)


    Anyways, I think that's everything I wanted to say abt this topic! Hope someone resonated with my little rant here. Maybe I'll make more of these as a kind of outlet, but honestly, don't wanna fill this page with negativity. Wanna be more artsy and chill here.

Love everyone! (unless you're hateful, then get lost)

Kudos: 14

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I am not well educated on terf's however many of them do not think that way and I agree with some of their morals. Many of them dislike the trans ideology because it pushes gender roles and limit what woman and men are (sex). I don't mean this in any disrespect btw.



Eh not really. They do think like that, maybe not in spaces you hang around with. (the thing in quotes from this blog is a translation of the message I received from a TERF.) You got your own exposure to TERFs and I got mine. Why do you think trans people push gender roles and limit what women and men are? And what did you mean by putting "(sex)" at the end ?

by fryedom; ; Report

By sex I mean I am referring to the gender or sex you're born with I put it since many people say there is a difference however I'm not too fond of it so it was a measure ig, but to remove labels and titles off of the two genders of men and women we push against stereotypes. For example, not all men have to be big and tough all the time but can be soft, can be feminine, and doesn't have to fit the ideal stereotype. Same with women, this part of feminism helped us gain the right to wear pants and work; to show we don't have to be "girly" but can do what any other man can.

Now that that explanation is out of the way, my main point is that doesn't feeling like you don't fit the stereotype and have to change your gender, pushing those roles?

A majority of transwomen I see, transition into the patriarchal standard of a "woman", nails, long hair, makeup, slim bodies and don't do "manly things". They say they felt uncomfortable with their bio gender and had to transition but one thing I don't understand is why? 

It's one thing to like feminine things, wear dresses, grow out your hair, wear makeup but why do we associate it with a need to transition into a woman? Women are so much more than that so why is that a common concept for trans women. 

I am not too educated on trans men, so I used this as an example but how isn't this pushing roles?

by .lilliଓ; ; Report

idk where you got that impression of trans women from , maybe actually get to know some trans people, cuz you just seem to not really know much abt the trans experience.


You are mixing up gender identity (who someone is) with gender expression (how someone dresses). Moreover, gender ≠ sex, it's different stuff.


Trans Women don't transition because they think they don't fit the stereotype of their assigned sex, that's just wrong, they transition to be their most authentic selves.  If being trans was just about stereotypes, feminine men would transition to be women, but they don't, because liking makeup doesn't change the fact that they are comfortable being men.


Trans women also don't think they HAVE TO wear nails, long hair, makeup, slim bodies and not do "manly things" to be women or identify as one. Everything you said is just for self expression, a choice to look in a way that's comfortable to them. Moreover, trans women come in all sorts of shapes, backgrounds, interests, and tastes in fashion that don't align with white patriarchal standards of what a woman is or should be. Trans women also don't "stop doing manly things", idk where you got that one from. Trans people don't just erase everything abt who they were pre-transition to become this hyper-gendered caricature whenever they transition. They're still the same person, with the same interests, experience and everything, so they'll still do "manly things", whatever that means.


All this to say, just like a cis woman wearing a dress doesn't hurt feminism, a trans woman wearing a dress doesn't either.


p.s. : I'd also advice to re-read my blog because it already addresses some of your concerns and what I think abt them

by fryedom; (edited); Report

"By sex I mean I am referring to the gender or sex you're born with I put it since many people say there is a difference however I'm not too fond of it" unscientific point of view 

"my main point is that doesn't feeling like you don't fit the stereotype and have to change your gender, pushing those roles?" its not the stereotype but the gender, people dont transition because it doesn't fit their gender stereotype but instead the stereotype of looking masc or femme is manifested BECAUSE of current society, the person is a symptom of the root cause, the person who is trans isn't doing anything but transitioning inside of a patriarchal society, People's gender schema develop based almost entirely on their environment, gender is cultural, what it means to be a man or woman is different in every country (big or small differences), if society is patriarchal, then peoples gender schema will be based on traditional views of what it means to be a man or a woman.


The trans experience can vary a lot from person to person, and trans people are already more likely to be non-conforming than cis people. But the entire concept of passing proves that gender identity is not entirely an internal phenomena but is also external, you can feel like a woman or man internally but on the outside you have to look like it for a majority of people to accept you, unfortunately as I've already explained, that means you need to have traditional feminine/masculine traits to be seen as the gender you prefer.

Also i think that the whole notion of "if MtF person wears traditionally femme clothing then = perpetuation of gender roles" is an incredibly arbitrary and skewed argument that is mostly used as a justification to hate what you do not understand (trans people). And is exemplified by a majority of these use-cases being in relation to MtF only, never seen brought up against FtM or most importantly cis people

by SHINIQUAM; (edited); Report

to be honest it still doesn't make much sense to me why trans women can take a title we worked hard to uplift for years this might be me being ignorant but I just cannot understand and I'm not that educated on ftm because many of them don't go on the internet bashing the gender

by .lilliଓ; ; Report

i propose you get more educated, and get to deeply know some trans people cuz it just seems you get impression abt trans people from social media, where you definitely have some sort of a TERF-leaning algorithm


You saying "why trans women can take a title we worked hard to uplift for years?" is smtg I'm not going to answer in good faith because

a) It presupposes that trans women being themselves automatically devalues cis women’s rights, which is something you're yet to prove. Historically, this same scarcity mindset was used to argue that including women of colour, working-class women, or lesbians would "devalue" or ruin the feminist movement. It didn't then, and it doesn't now. Another group gaining dignity doesn't make yours vanish, womanhood and women's rights isn't some finite pie

b) it presupposes that trans women never contributed to feminism and the fight for the rights of women, which is not only historically inaccurate, but yet again smtg you're yet to prove or demonstrate 

c) It assumes trans women haven't worked hard or suffered to exist, completely erasing the immense violence and discrimination they face

d) It ignores the fact that trans women face misogyny BECAUSE they are women. Transphobia is not random, it's rooted in patriarchy as the moment a trans woman embraces herself and claims womanhood, she is subjected to the same devaluation and policing cis women have fought for centuries. That means your framing of transitioning as just taking a title to escape oppression is wrong, they are actually doing the opposite. Trans women are putting themselves right into the crosshairs of the system that punishes ANYONE living as a woman


As to you seeing more trans women arguing with TERFs online than trans men, this is because

 a) Currently trans women are targeted by transphobes and TERFS way more than trans men so obviously there will be more callouts and push backs from trans women 

b) Trans Men have a low visibility in public discourse which is a whole problem in itself as they are basically getting erased from the public consciousness due to transmysoginy and patriarchy. There is also another thing, which is the fact that testosterone alters physical features (voice, hair etc) in a way that allows them to "pass" more seamlessly in public compared to trans women

c) you're just in an echo chamber at the end of the day, mate. the main reason you see a lot of TERF content and Trans Women arguing and calling TERFs out is because you engage with this content, so it keeps giving you the same stuff which, not only gives you a false perspective and impression abt trans people that clashes with the reality of the situation, but also ideologically isolates you, making you only ever reinforce your beliefs instead of doubting them


by fryedom; (edited); Report

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Former radfem/TERF here (as much as I'm embarrassed to admit that I ever identified as one), I want to share my perspective. Most TERFs I was around during that time couldn't even care less about gender abolition, even though that's a big thing in the feminism they pretend so hard to preach. Pretty sure very few of them ever picked up a book about it. They shat on trans women (never trans men, because they don't care about them) simply because they believe that a woman is defined only by her genitals and ability to give birth. They don't even realize that they sound exactly like men who reduce women to incubators. Don't even ask them what about infertile women or women who are not XX or women who didn't experience severe misogyny (they assume that womanhood is also measured in how much a woman has suffered), because they never think that deep, they just use radfem as an excuse to be hateful. If they really believed in gender abolition they would understand that a way to reach gender abolition is to get rid of the idea that one's gender is defined by one's genitals.



Thanks for sharing your perspective! Absolutely agree with you here. The only reason I brought up bio-essentialism in relation to TERFs is because most of my exposure to them comes from Russian- and Ukrainian-speaking spaces. All I hear about from those TERFs is how much trans people are a roadblock when it comes to gender abolition, which in my opinion is so nonsensical...

by fryedom; ; Report

exactlyyy💀 never regretted leaving that hellhole for good. genuinely life became easier and happier after that

by kra𐚁; ; Report

i would like to add that terfs but also any kind of "fake activist" always use black women  (or any poc individuals really) as a shield for "see? im woke enough that i even support black women and insert them in my white bio-essentalist femminism"

i just hate how they romaticize having a uterus and act like thats what make them have "empathy" (which they dont have, they are just bullies, does that make em men with this logic? lmao) :duh:

by archivi031; ; Report