Just to make this clear all liberals piss me off but they way white liberals rationalize their views is a little different from POC. Also, I don't typically meet liberals that are POC. Anyways, I know I haven't been here consistently but work has gotten really demanding lately and I have to get this off my chest.
I absolutely love interacting with people who are up to date with what's going in politically and can also bring philosophical takes into the mix. I don't really have many friends so I've been trying to make some friends that I love and also share this sentiment with me. Since I work in a predominantly white area, those people typically end up being white people. I personally don't like to judge individual people based on anything other than what they've shown me because I don't believe the failure of a system should be extended to the failure of an individual.
Recently, I've noticed a lot of the people I make friends with have "leftist" views and then I find out they're a liberal because they support capitalism. What is the point of going out of your way to say you don't believe in the inhumane society in which we live in but, you want to support the very machine that keeps it running? All the social constructs you want to deconstruct were put in to place so that capitalism could succeed an yet you support it.
Not on that but, I've also noticed that a lot of liberals like to fall back on the argument that it "gives everyone the opportunity to become rich" but in order to be rich people there has to be people in poverty and that is so unfair. It's either that or they don't know how to rationalize capitalism because they have no real opinion on class struggle.
Furthermore, the reason why white liberals specifically irritate me way more is because you inherently have a privilege that no POC can touch. Capitalism at it's finest is fascism and, if you're white you automatically benefit from that because the marginalized groups of people will never be able to get opportunities as easy as you if at all. My favorite question to ask liberals is "Well, if there are going to be rich people who are going to be the poor people?" and they always say capitalism can be reformed. Yeah, maybe with a whole new set of oppressive social constructs.
The last thing I need to get off my chest about this is how when you bring up the American political axis versus the global one they always try to rationalize why they are still "on the left". Like no. You're on the American left which is globally recognized as (at least) somewhat conservative movements.
You don't care about decolonization, you don't care about your peers, and you don't believe in equality. You believe in a better life for you and the people around you. You believe in a world where you worry about no money while other are still wondering if they can even afford their CPAP machine next month. You want to own your things while the people you can't see have to rent and lease everything. You're not fighting for equality, you're fighting to be richer.
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SLIM GRIMS
Good post. It's just getting more an more confusing with what a lot of these people believe or stand for. The unfortunate truth is that a lot of white people never want to be uncomfortable, so they can't imagine a world where they are not generating wealth and hoarding wealth.
If that is their world view, fine, but please stop acting like you want to change the world YOU made so unlivable for so many other types of people.
So many white people disregard classism in general, even if THEY ARE LIVING IN IT. It's crazy. The amount of people we have met who are on CPAP, who are poor as rocks, still supporting capitalists because it makes them feel like part of a "group" is mind boggling.
Am very sick of seeing people who say they hate fascism and capitalism., but then open their mouths and act like the people they say they hate.
Thank you! It really is getting confusing what people stand for now. It's gotten to the point where when I'm having a conversation about politics or ethics I have to ask specifically about people's ideas regarding class issues.
I think white people disregard classism (even if they suffer from it) because if they acknowledged it existed they'd also have to come to terms with the fact that they still benefitted from privilege. If they do that then they'd have to look around and realize that the people they look up to most likely already had the money and skin to be where they are and they would have to really think about which accomplishments are really their own versus what the system set up for them. It's a huge cognitive dissonance because they claim to be activist but haven't taken the time out to actually construct what they believe in.
I also think most liberals see themselves as "the millionaires who haven't made it out yet" instead of working class citizens. Liberalism at this point is really just fighting because you aren't rich in this moment. I wonder how many liberals would be protesting if they could afford an island.
by Mae🩷; ; Report
omg your last paragraph is so perfect.
It is insane speaking to lower class white liberals (and don't get me started on lower class conservatives haha).
Sometimes it just makes you want to hide under a rock, but we all know ya can't. You are completely correct on everything, don't let anyone tell you you're not. Literally haven't heard anyone speak correctly on classism on this website, it's so refreshing.
Rock on.
by SLIM GRIMS; ; Report
Yessss it's so strange because like look around you... You're closer to us than you ever will be Musk, Trump, Netanyahu, etc but you're fighting for this system to stay in place... Sure loll.
I honestly try to read other people's political takes on here and they always eventually lose me because they end up wanting some weird construct they benefit from (but it harmful to others) to stay in place. It's starting to get aggravating loll.
by Mae🩷; ; Report
Get used to being aggravated x_x
We try too, immediately regret it. Best thing you can do is keep yelling at the void, maybe one person will listen.
by SLIM GRIMS; ; Report
I'm very used to it loll. Also everyone listens they just interpret it a million different ways bcz they're projecting I fear.
by Mae🩷; ; Report
iamjazandilistentoittoo
I never completely understood the difference between liberalism and leftism, but this puts it into perspective. I also never understood how people just love capitalism, yet their ideals cannot be created with capitalism present. It seems like republicans and liberals are merely in a big argument of what humans deserve, yet they don't change the foundation of America to get the results they believe they want. America will never become free for all, there's always a price whether that's money-wise, or health-wise.
Yes, like politics are literally the debate of human rights and it's so heartbreaking. I personally believe America will be very different in the future which would in turn change the world a lot. I don't think it'll be anywhere close to my lifetime but, the way things are going now benefits a few thousand people out of the billions that will become enraged. The trajectory of right-wing movements (including liberalism) globally is coming way too close to totalitarian and military dictatorships which is fascism. I'm not sure if the way the world might look after me is going to be a world I agree with but, I am saying I believe something major is going to change.
Also, I'm glad I helped you put that into perspective! A lot of people don't really understand the difference and I love to help educate people who interact with me (if they want it loll).
by Mae🩷; (edited); Report
America will definitely be different in the future, and that definitely affects the world. It seems like America is like a model for the world, or more a thief of the world.. since we practically allow exploitation of smaller economy countries through capitalism. And you're right, America is scarily getting closer to fascism, and it's odd that liberals don't see themselves as a part of that, when they totally add to the problem of capitalism.
Thank you for that! It's sad that most people don't know the difference (including me not knowing), but I'll definitely tell people now! I really need to do more research on different political ideals. Right now I am interested in socialism, but I don't think I know enough about it to say I'm a socialist. Do you know anything about socialism or communism?
by iamjazandilistentoittoo; ; Report
Of course! Okay, so socialism is more of an umbrella of plenty of political ideologies. You can be a socialist and still have completely different views on what that looks like. An example of this could be Social democracy vs Anarchy. Both are technically considered socialist but, anarchist are considered "leftist extremist" in America while Demsocs are typically criticized for not being social enough. Socialism is just the idea of collective ownership and control.
In order to understand what I'm going to say I'm going to break down the difference between the American political axis (1D model) and the global political axis (2D model). With the American axis, you are categorized as strictly left or right and the primary focus is economics. This in turn makes the political scale more conservative. With the global model, you add more scales; authoritarianism and libertarianism. This is a more nuanced scale so, people who would be considered far-left in American may only be considered center left or fully center (the "neutral" zone). Just for clarification, the American political axis is considered "1D" but it is a bit more nuanced than that so I encourage you to do a bit more personal research on it as well.
Now, communism falls under socialism because they believe in shared ownership of everything, to abolish private property, distribution (of goods, services) by need instead of "contribution", and no states, classes or money but the way people view it in America is completely different from other nations. In America, communism is seen as far-left and extremely progressive because it does not demand reforming of capitalism but, rather abolishing it completely alongside private ownership. Globally, in terms of economics communism still falls far-left but they are not when it comes to authoritarianism because of the way they'd like to enforce these economics goals (typically one party rule, planning that is centralized, and suppression of dissent).
Sorry if I sounded mad formal, I just get really geeky about politics loll. I hope I answered some questions for you!
by Mae🩷; (edited); Report
This is very intriguing. I had heard of the political axes before, I just never fully understood them. It's dumb that America sees socialism and communism as like the big bad wolf, when really it is meant to give freedom to all. I think the idea of anarchy is interesting, I just wonder how that would turn out for the world. I may be communist.
I've heard before that there's never been a true communist country and the countries that claimed to be communist were actually socialist technically. I'm not sure if that's true, though.
I don't mind, I'm exactly like that when talking about deep things I'm interested in, lol! You did, thank you so much!
by iamjazandilistentoittoo; ; Report
Actually, you're very right! That's actually why communism is recognized as more authoritarian! Most places have been closer to an authoritarian state or anarcho adjacent states. The reason is because there isn't really a "true" idea of what communism would look like in a real functioning society. The first major attempt to create communist state (The Paris Commune) was highly unsuccessful and was ruined after only about 2 months. I think it's pretty interesting to look into actually!
That's good, loll. Sometimes I feel awkward when someone asks me a question and I go straight in formalities loll.
by Mae🩷; ; Report
That's cool!! How do you learn all this stuff about politics? Do you just research it or read books or?
by iamjazandilistentoittoo; ; Report
A mix of both for sure! In order to understand politics you have to understand the ideas and history behind them so I get books for things like that. I recommend "The Anatomy of Fascism" by Robert O. Paxton if you're not too educated on fascism and where it came from! Pretty interesting book.
For thing like modern propaganda, events, and shifts in the political climate I like to research peer reviewed (or at least reputable) sites!
One thing I will say about researching online is be careful for certain dog whistles in media. That would be another reason why I think books and online works well together because reading helps with literacy and helps you better recognize certain phrases and the history behind them! When finding books I think it's important to at least read one or two books that directly clash with your views to understand the thought process and how it's rationalized to others even if you may ot understand it!
by Mae🩷; ; Report
That's good, I've wanted to read books about it, I just haven't yet. I got Leviathan from the library but I didn't even have time to start it lol.
I just added The Anatomy of Fascism to my reading list, it's obviously not in my school library, but it may be in the public library.
I'm also very cautious on what websites I trust! There's a LOT of propaganda out there.
Okay! I want to read more political books, but my family doesn't go to the public library often and they're republican and they hate communism and socialism, so it may be hard to get them. Definitely going to try to read online if I have to lol. I'm really interested in reading more about views that clash with mine, it is very interesting.
by iamjazandilistentoittoo; ; Report
I understand for sure. Ebooks are honestly where it's at when certain books/genres are inaccessible.
by Mae🩷; ; Report