Before I start:
No, I did not find the scene subculture from TikTok or Instagram. I don't even have TikTok or Insta, and I most likely never will. I've been invested in the scene subculture since I was twelve. I am now 18.
labels are for soup cans.
xx
The scene subculture has seen a sort of "revival" since 2021, peaking in 2023 and continuing to stay a bit more relevant than it had been before. While I'll be talking about the "Rawring 20s" revival in a later blog, I'm gonna focus on modern socials and how the scene subculture has been watered down, and more importantly, how the toxic things from the past are continuing in the community.
Table of contents
1. Disregarding History
2. Loss of Lifestyle
3. Perfection Groups & Covert -isms
+ my experience as someone who started a perfection group [VV]
4. Idiotic Gatekeeping
1. Disregarding of HistoryIf you have spent any amount of time on Insta or TikTok, you will notice people harping on the idea that scene is a "political" subculture, that you can only be scene by thrifting/making DIY clothes, and that if you are not a left winger (per U.S. standards), then you cannot be scene. I have also seen people say that scene isn't a "poser" subculture not knowing where that notion came from.
While there are specific substyles of scene like Rawring 20s Scene and Raver Scene that have leftist values ingrained into their lifestyles, overall, scene was APOLITICAL and leaned heavily into an overconsumptionist lifestyle.
DISCLAIMER! ALERT ALERT! I AM NOT CONSERVATIVE. if anything, i lean left.
But Sol! It stemmed from punk and emo!!! Those are political and against capitalism, therefore by the transitive property, scene is also political and is anticapitalist!
NO. I said this in my prior blog, but the reason scene was labelled as a poser subculture by so many individuals was BECAUSE IT WAS APOLITICAL, but took inspiration from very political subcultures. They took inspo from the fashion (and in some cases music) and trashed the rest. Why the fuck do you think punks hated scenemo kids to a point where they literally had a "war" in Mexico City?!
Why do you think scene kids were mall rats? Why do you think they had so much cool clothes all the time? While yeah, some of them thrifted or made their own clothes (especially in substyles such as the raver scene substyle and those who did not have much money/lived in more rural areas), a lot of them were buying clothes every weekend trying to break into the limelight of MySpace. That and PR packages; a lot of scenesters modelled for companies that would most definitely be considered fast fashion today.
While it is a good thing that people are trying to limit the influx of hurtful people into the community today and make it a space that is more conscious of evolving political climates, you cannot disregard the subculture's history and re-paint everyone into a role model. A lot of modern-day scenesters on platforms like Insta and TikTok will push this view of "every true scene kid is a leftist", and then in the next post will be idolising someone like Kiki Kannibal or Ambrehhh is Dead, even when they have said and done things that do NOT line up with those beliefs at all.
WARNING WARNING WARNING! VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED! I AM NOT ENCOURAGING YOU TO SEARCH THESE UP, BUT IF YOU WANT TO, HERE IS YOUR PROOF!
While I can't link anything here because of the ToS of FriendRewind, if you go onto YouTube and find Ambrehhh's video called "Shopping with Michaela Mischief, Ambrehhh, & Levi", at 1:52, Amber casually drops the n word. This isn't her first time!!! On her main channel, she also says it multiple times in other videos.
If you do some digging on Kiki Kannibal, you will find photos of her and her sister (Dakota Rose) doing gestures that are extremely racist towards Asian people and saying disgusting things towards people who are at a healthy body weight. I cannot name site that has the most extensive proof due to the presence of NSFW. However, there is a testimony from OfficialPeiton, a jfashion blogger, who has the proof of racism along with other things on Dakota on her WordPress without the NSFW.
And these are just some of the famous people! Racism, homophobia, and ableism were pretty common things in the 2000s. People who spoke up against these things would be called snowflakes or overly-sensitive. Grooming was also a humongous issue, especially for those scenesters who were active in the music scene.
**I know that some hardcore defenders of these individuals will attempt to take down some of the media (they have attempted to in the past), but know that a lot of it has been archived. There's no use in trying to clear their names. It's completely okay to be inspired by someone's visual style! but never idolise someone you only know by looks.
Again, it's a GOOD thing that people are starting to realise that being racist and homophobic is bad!!! It's good that people are starting to call out brands on their ethics and buying secondhand! It's good that the overall scene community, one in which this stuff WAS rampant in the past, is trying to turn a new leaf. However, you CANNOT disregard history and paint the people that are visually appealing to you in a light where you are minimising their actions.
You can acknowledge the history, admit that it was wrong, and use it as motivation to NOT continue the past. It is wrong to rewrite it to your liking.
2. Loss of LifestyleSubculture (noun): In the sociology of culture, a subculture is a group of people within a cultural society that differentiates itself from the values of the mainstream or dominant culture (or superculture) to which it belongs, often maintaining some of its founding principles (Wikipedia).
Scene differentiated itself from mainstream culture in terms of LIFESTYLE and PRINCIPLES, not just fashion and music.
- be involved in the associated music scenes, whether it be listening to and discovering underground/local artists, going to concerts/raves/shows regularly, making your own music, or connecting with artists you like.
- do not label yourself as scene. that is something that others must label you as.
- use social media. doesn't matter what you use as long as you've got some sort of presence. start a blog, start a YouTube, start a gaming channel, start a travel vlog. it really doesn't matter.
Principles:
- EXPERIMENT with your life, your style, yourself. YOLO; life is too short to not try something new.
- be unique & be confident in your skin.
- do risky things. do cringe things. don't be afraid to be weird.
DON'T TRY TO ADHERE TO A LABEL! MAKE A NAME FOR YOURSELF.
** there are substyles in which lifestyle and principles differed and had specifics to them, but for all of the subculture, these were the core ideas. If you're interested in the lifestyle of specific substyles, consider reading my first blog.
Many modern scenesters on big platforms see scene as just a superficial look and sound.
These people are always trying their best to adhere to a label, whereas scene was made to go AGAINST labels (kind of ironic, because like. It kinda is a label but whatever; you get what I mean).
you don't have to ask if youre "scene" enough, you don't have to follow whatever tf the self proclaimed "scene queens" who have their clothing brands and links in their bio and blah blah blah push out to you to buy cuz its the only thing that won't make you a "poser."
Scene ISN'T A COSTUME! While it didn't have an overarching political basis, it DID have a community root. You wanted people to know you were a scene kid without having to say it.
(maybe take it a step even further and have ppl IRL recognise you by your online handles)
"I don't dress like this IRL because I'll get bullied."
"I don't dress like this outside of my house because I think it's cringe and xyz person thinks its cringe."
or, the unsaid one that I think is the biggest one at play on today's socials:
"I dress like this online because it makes me famous and makes me money, but in real life, I would never."
YOU FIND CONFIDENCE IN NOT APPEALING TO THE MAINSTREAM STYLE! that's the point of the subculture. you're not dressing for the money, you're not dressing to appeal to an audience. you're dressing for YOURSELF. YOU FIND CONFIDENCE IN BEING YOURSELF. It takes a lot of courage and time to step up and take the leap into being a part of the subculture in your everyday life!
(Of course its a different thing if you're living in an area where you aren't permitted to dress like that for religious reasons or for genuine safety hazards.)
Though there was a lot of infighting among scene kids online with people accusing each other of copying, catfishing, etc., IRL, they tended to flock towards each other! They wanted to be friends with each other!!! They were ridiculed by everyone around them, and in some cases, even hurt by others physically for being scene!
(i will say tho: at parties and concerts, scenesters did tend to get into fights and beat each other up. remember that alcohol and other substances were also at play here ;P )
While sure, house parties and meetups were a way to get to know some other scenesters, a lot of em would attempt to get to know others who were already in their areas simply by going to the mall or skate park (places where they knew that local scenesters were more likely going to hang out at). If you were lucky, maybe there was another scenester or MySpace emo in your school.
They were the "weird kids" and they wanted to stick together.
let's see how this compares to today.
Now, I'm gonna give you four anecdotes from my life and my only encounters with scene kids irl. (these were in europe except for the last one)
1. I was coming home from the train station. I was dressed in neon pink skinny jeans, black and white studded belt, a couple of bracelets, champion high-tops, & my dot dot curve shirt. A large group of alt people were waiting at the bus stop I was at. There was a visibly scene person among them, and I went up to her and complimented her outfit & vape pen (it was a really cute blinged out kuromi one). She turned to me and told me to name three Dot Dot Curve songs (fyi, I did name three of them, and I did not say Freakin' Freak. xoxo). I then asked her where she got her belts, because I really liked them, and she responded "Temu. You're annoying, bye." and she left.
2. My school was part of a coalition for an arts festival. I do classical music at my school, so I was invited to perform. Afterwards, at night, some local cover bands formed by teens performed. There, I met a scene girl. She initiated the kandi trade (it was my first ever kandi trade) and we moshed together to 1984 by Bowling for Soup and just continued dancing and talking until like 10pm at night when the concerts ended. She didn't have SpaceHey, but I did give her my user in case she ever wanted to make one. She was very sweet and had really swag hair.
3. I was rollerskating in the skate park in my city. A lot of alternative people usually hang out there, but the majority of them are either e-kids, "y2k older brother core", or goths. That day, there happened to be a scene kid at the skate park. She wasn't even skating or skateboarding, just sitting on the side. I walked up to her and was like. hey I really love your hair! she scoffed(? idk if thats the right term. its like when you exhale sharply once but like almost a sarcastic laugh) and smiled. ive had worse reactions to complimenting ppl so i just didnt care and continued skating. I sat down on a bench to get water after a while, and i feel something touch the back of my neck. The same girl was trying to take the diamond necklace i made that I wear almost every day off my neck, but since she couldn't undo the clamp, she then tried to rip it off of me and the chain was choking me from the front. I ended up accidentally slapping her away, and she ran away.
(ps. in the moment i felt horrible cuz im usually not one to lay hands on others, but in retrospect that was badass ngl)
4. This happened about a week ago, and it was my first interaction with a scene kid ever in the USA irl. I was wearing pink shorts and my cupcake cult shirt, along with a devil heart statement necklace. I was in Colorado at a market and I saw a girl with a domo kun keychain. She was most definitely a newbie scene kid (middle part, baggy jeans, tons of kandi). I walked up to her and wanted to compliment her, but she told me "I don't talk to posers."
why did I include my appearance in these anecdotes? because how you look and how you approach other scenesters should let them know that YOU are one of them! I may have understood if I wasn't dressed as "scene" I would've gotten more weird looks, but even when scenesters DO dress the part, this shit still happens. and even if you don't dress scene, if somebody gives you a compliment, you either say thank you n if you dont want anything to do with them, you just ignore them.
While there are nice scene kids out there, like in the second example I mentioned, at least in my experience (and in a lot of others' experiences), a lot of scenesters IRL are about as exclusive and toxic as scenesters in the 2000s were online.
tbf, being the "weird kid" is a trend right now, and if you're not "weird" enough per the standards of the internet (or whoever you want to get to know), you will be shunned. and this definitely applies to scene as well.
Scene is still a relatively small subculture in comparison to the other subcultures that have been picked up by Instagram and TikTok (ie, goth, gyaru, "mcbling", kandi ravers, metalheads etc.)
you're not gonna find very many scene kids out in the wild!
in an age where you cant really go out to house parties and concerts every single night, things are bound to be a bit different, of course. but IRL, at least in my opinion, when I see someone who looks like a scene kid, I get excited knowing that theres someone out there IN REAL LIFE that I am seeing WITH MY OWN EYES who understands how I feel and what I believe in.
however, because of how fucking "trendified" scene has become once again, a lot of new-age scenesters feel attacked when they see someone who they think could be more "scene" than them.
3. Perfection Groups and Covert -ismsDISCLAIMER! Not all scenesters on mainstream social media are like this, nor are all perfection groups like this. Many of my friends and I are currently in some perfection groups!
However, there are a significant amount of users and groups who are like this.
I will not be dropping names or handles for the sake of not restarting long-dead dramas.
Since new age scenesters claim that politics are important to being scene, you'd assume that scene is a more accepting subculture as a result.
What if I told you that it's still fucking racist, ableist, and ED-promoting?
This is my biggest gripe with the modern scene community, mostly because my friends and I have been targets of harassment DUE TO THESE THINGS.
Perfection Groups were a thing of le old MySpace daze that claimed to only allow the epitome of scenesters and MySpace emos. Aka, if you weren't a skinny, white person with eurocentric facial features, you would have no shot at joining the majority of these groups.
the majority of these original groups were VERY problematic. Many promoted eating disorders, self harm, racism, and some were even run by paedophiles who groomed the members.
Trains were similar to Perfection Groups, except added onto it was the amount of "friends" (more accurately described as followers) you had. You had to have a specific amount of friends to join one of these IN ADDITION to being considered attractive. Trains were more focused around hype and advertising themselves everywhere they possibly could, including their profile banners, and gaining as many friends/followers as they possibly could, becoming "microcelebrities" (or even celebrities as seen w. some actual MySpace scene queens).
Usually, when people hear "perfection group" they think of the big five:
PD (perfection dolls), VIP (Vanity is Perfection), AE (Aesthetic Ecstasy), AP (Aesthetic Perfection), and APEX (Aesthetic Apex)
After doing a quick lil crawl on MySpace, I realised that well. Perfection groups really weren't some crazy super-revered uber exclusive rare things. I set a timer for 1 hour and challenged myself to find as many perfection group tags as I could.
I found FOURTY ONE unique tags for these groups, and this was all just from one musician's comments page from the time span of 2007-2011.
So, what's the big deal?
Instagram specifically is hooked on these MySpace groups, and has decided to make their own versions of them. There are COUNTLESS groups all claiming to be for the "elite" and only the "true" scenesters, taking inspiration from the "big 5" OG perfection groups.
**while not all groups are like this, many of these new perfection groups continue exactly what perfection groups in the past have done... just under wraps.
many perfection groups have rules in their "highlights" as well as "inspo" pictures that they say is their vibe. Many also have rules stating that the "-isms" will not be tolerated. (racism, sexism, ableism, promoting of EDs, and homophobia).
HOWEVER!
one can write these rules and proceed to do the opposite. many scenestagram groups will quietly reject any people of colour, anyone without a pin-straight hair type, disabled individuals, or people who are not skinny from being in their group.
and! when some of these actions are brought to light, they immediately defend themselves with "well. we put our inspo photos up there, they didn't fit the look so why did they apply?"
or even more heinous:
"We just want to be as authentic as possible"
if in your application, you say that politics are important to the scene subculture, why the fuck are you not following your own rules?
Now, here's my story as an ex-perfection group owner :^)
This was on SpaceHey, mind you. Not even Instagram.
This was almost exactly one month ago. I was doing some research for my prior blog (the crash course one) and stumbled across some archived pages of actual old MySpace perfection groups. I thought hmm. What if I made a perfection group on SpaceHey that actually served the purpose of being a community for scene kids who actually valued the subculture and not just the look?
thus was the start of "Violence is Vanity" or [VV]
I predominantly have people interested in this kinda stuff added on SpaceHey, so naturally, a lot of my friends whom I had known for a long time joined.
This included people of colour, people with a curly hair texture, people with different body types, AND disabled people! However, ALL of them had a very well-defined "scene" or MySpace "emo" look. It just didn't fit the conventional 2020s poster child pinterest board look for "scene".
We even got applications from people who weren't in my friends list! In the application, the rules were stated (no harassment, starting drama w. other groups, homophobia, racism, etc etc etc.).
I made it clear kindly that this was a place for scenesters who were familiar with the style and who wanted a platform to share photos. Non-members were welcome to comment on posts and ask questions about the fashion, but they wouldn't have the member badge by their names. I only had to reject one person's application in my entire time (and the reasoning behind that was because they did not check the box to agree to the rules).
Everything was going well (we had about 60 people following the group, ~20 of whom were members) and then, people started accusing me of racism and promoting EDs because the rules were not stated in the bio of the group, only in the application. We lost about half the people following the group, but the majority of the members stayed.
I complied and added the disclaimer; while some of the members were angry about the change, saying that I was just going for a more official look on the homepage and didn't want the focus to be taken off of all the graphics and showcase, the world has changed and people are a bit more sensitive today than they used to be. so, I'd rather make it clear that I don't condone any of those things.
after this first drama died down, one of our group members got instagram, left Violence is Vanity, and joined a scenestagram perfection group.
within a couple days of them joining it, I received this message from the ex-group member:
so I add another clarification to the page:
THIS IS A SPACEHEY ONLY GROUP. we do not have a page on any other platforms.
I also remove any instance of the ex-member in the banner, showcases, etc.
Then, a couple days later, I receive ANOTHER IM from a different person (sadly I don't have a screenshot since I blocked their ass.)
on instagram, we'd been making the rounds in various small perfection group GCs, and we came to be known as an "imperfection" group.
Essentially, anyone who was in [VV] would be barred from joining or applying to any of these groups because they were in a group for "ugly" scene kids.
Then, there were some users who took it even further and said that we were copying another perfection group and making them seem ugly, and they threatened to post all of our faces to instagram in a callout to get people to find out our real identities since we were such "posers".
i deleted the group.
4. Idiotic GatekeepingThis is genuinely THE MOST STUPID shit ive seen in my life and it just tells me that a lot of modern day scene kids do not care about the subculture enough to research beyond a surface level into it and just repeat what they see on TikTok and Instagram. It's like the equivalent of people in the 2000s who read a "how to be scene" tutorial on Blogger and thought they knew everything.
Gatekeeping has always been a thing in the subculture, but it's had a purpose.
In the past, scene kids would gatekeep bands, artists, and clothing brands so that normies would not find them. (A few bands DID go mainstream, and it made the scenesters really pissed the fuck off.)
The whole point of gatekeeping was to keep the subculture FROM GETTING WATERED DOWN to just the fashion or just the music, because the three components of the subculture (lifestyle, music, fashion) all went together hand in hand. you couldn't have one without the other!
and gatekeeping kept their lifestyle relatively manageable!
again, ofc there was petty gatekeeping cuz ur getting a bunch of children on the internet together. but overall, even with the pettiniess, the gatekeeping was a way to keep posers and normies out of the loop with what the new hottest shit was.
Recently though, gatekeeping (outside of political reasons) has reached really stupid levels that seem to be aimed at certain demographics of people, so I'm here to put all of em to rest.
Frequently Said Things"You can't be scene and be over 18. It's in the name. 'scene KID.'"
Okay that's false. What about scene QUEENS? Scene KINGS? Vanna Venom? Audrey Kitching? Leda Muir? Amor Hilton? Corey Pattakos? Scotty Vanity? Spanky? What about scene kids who were scene PAST when they turned 18, like Ambrehhh is Dead and Kiki Kannibal???
"Scene kid" is one of the many terms used to describe someone who is a part of the scene.
Other terms that were commonly used: scenester, scenie, and trendie
Scene isn't exclusive to minors. While in its prime there were many minors who were a part of the subculture, there was a presence of adults as well (for the better or worse. many were iconic, but some were also preds).
"You can't be scene and be religious because religious people do not belong in alt spaces."
Again. Where the fuck are we getting this information from!!!??? If you would take a listen to some of the metalcore music that was popular at the beginning of the scene subculture such as Underoath and The Devil Wears Prada, you would realise that Christian metalcore bands were integral to the musical side of the subculture. And, in addition to this, a lot of scenesters who lived out in rural areas went to church and Sunday school regularly.
In the Pastel Indie Scene substyle, many were deeply involved in and practised Pagan religions, Wicca, Buddhism, and other non-mainstream (per Western world standards) religions.
I haven't found any primary-source info from MySpace on Wayback machine for any other other Abrahamic religions like Judaism and Islam, but I do believe that there probably were scenesters (or people who attempted to get involved in the subculture) from those religions. They just didn't make it their entire personality.
TLDR, you can be religious and be scene. You can be NONreligious and be scene. The scene dont gaf what u are as long as ur authentic.
"You can't be scene and do well in school/read books/get a professional job."
This is really absurd take someone asked me about a while back but I figured I'd include it here. Lemme just.
im gonna knock that away with two points.
> Leda Muir (ledamonsterbunny), the last official "old gen" scene queen is literally AN AUTHOR (and not to mention, afaik, some of her videos revolved around other books as well).
> amber katelyn beale is now a fucking SONOGRAPHER. that requires SO MUCH TRAINING!
aight is that enough?
your intelligence or want of pursuing a degree doesn't make you any more or less scene. if you wanna be a musician or a hairstylist, go for it! if you wanna be an author, if you wanna be a doctor, if you wanna be a whatever, GO. FOR. IT. TEH SCENE DOESN'T LIMIT YOU TO WHAT YOU CAN ACHIEVE! (your job might limit your appearance though, either for safety [ie. hair length or nail length] or for dress code reasons.)
"You can't be scene and NOT have straight hair/pale skin"
This is another way that modern scenesters do that sorta "covert" racism. Curly and wavy hair types and textures are more prominent in certain non-white races. Also, it's a given that certain races are not pale-skinned. The "pale skin" argument is not so covert.
The hair part is a bit tricky to find proof against, as straight hair WAS the beauty standard at the time and EVERYTHING was flooded with fried, straight hair. I've found a couple of images that are rly good examples of curly scene hair, but I am not sure about the dating of them. Google says 2012, but the earliest I see em on the internet is 2022, so im not sure.
The POC scene kids with straight hair r all 2007-2012 images.
There were some scene kids with curly or wavy hair. There were some POC scene kids. While they did receive hate, they were still scener than you in 2023. Here ya go <3 xx
"Your hair must be dyed colourfully to be scene."
I'm not even gonna talk cuz this is so BS that I don't want to waste characters on it. BOOM, BETCH.
are we forgetting the queen herself?you dont need brightly coloured hair to be scene. any of these could be (or be close to) someone's natural hair colour.
also!!! PSSSST!!!! theres a thing called hair extensions that a lot of your fav scene queens used... vanna's hair wasnt actually all animal print :^) someone debunked it on a blogspot blog and on YT years ago!
also apparently some ppl think that you cant wear black/white/desaturated things and be scene. look at all the br00t4l scenesters from the 2000s. or just look at the photos of the ppl above :3
"You can't be scene and not wear skinny jeans."
This is a bit iffy, as skinny jeans and tight clothes WERE a staple of the og 2000s fashion, BUT! there were other bottoms that were quite common and more comfortable to wear. It also depends on the substyle! The types of bottoms u wore could really tell others what part of the scene u belonged to.
leggings/legging shorts, skirts, and dresses for femme scenesters were other options.
leggings were more often worn layered in the HxC era, but during the "Tumblr" / Pastel Indie scene era, they were worn as normal pants.
Different types of skirts were common in all of scene, with tutus being popular in the rave scene style and HxC style.
(except maybe Indie Scene; because of the emphasis on more neutral tones and an airy feel, skirts didn't fit the look. Bootcut & skinny bluejeans were more common).
Rave scene substyle kids barely even wore skinny jeans cuz mf they were at RAVES; it gets HOT! and you cant bounce around or dance all crazy w them! they limit your movement!
you dont HAVE to wear skinny jeans to be scene. it just won't have the super snatched silhouette.
also, again remember that this new age of scene IS different from its og myspace predecessor. if ur out there wearing super baggy Tripp pants or parachute pants on the regular, that's more of a Rawring 20s scene sorta thing, not quite the MySpace scene vibe, and so be it. Of course, u may be a part of other subcultures and the fashion will overlap so at the end of the day, do whatever tf you want as long as ur happy. even if its not necessarily "scene" per the standards :^]
Thanks for coming to my research paper again. I hope this has been an interesting (or relatable) read for some of u guys.
Please lmk how u feel in the comments or even tell me some of ur own experiences if u feel like it!
<3 xx
Comments
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Lex Laceration
Thank you SOOO much for touching on the misconception that scene is “political”!! I think it comes from people who mean well but it’s so untrue it makes me laugh.
I guess you could argue that some male scenesters were sometimes politically subversive when they challenged traditional gender roles with their fashion but there really was little to no meaningful political movement at all.
and the curly hair thing! i think it's so ridiculous when people claim that you can't be scene without pin-straight hair not just because it's an obvious disguise for bigotry but ALSO because OG scene queens did curly styles too!!
if you go back and look at photos of audrey kitching and lanarae for example they did multiple photoshoots/looks where their hair was curled/crimped so acting like there's no room within the style for hair texture really just shows how uneducated some people are...
by Lex Laceration; ; Report
x_v4mp3y3lin3r_x
I think this is a really great post. If you want more things to research I think you should look into, and then write about, how scene culture vastly changed in the early to mid 2010s (that was when I was a "scene kid" à la MDE lol) and how scene culture began to decay before it (in my opinion) pretty much died in the mid 2010s.
I think it's cool that kids these days are into it, but I agree, a lot of their beliefs are ahistorical at best and dangerous at worst. It's concerning how the resurgence of "scene kids" has coincided with eating disorders and body checking, if anything I find it kind of embarrassing how many of these kids think that enjoying 2000s fashion = preaching 2000s values.
I like how you mentioned that scenesters were largely viewed as posers. For kids to want to recreate this culture, but not even understand WHY it was it's own culture (because other alternative cultures hated them and thought they were fucking annoying posers) in the first place, is definitely... something. I guess it's morbidly ironic. They want to be scene, but there IS no scene, so in their own fucked up way they've recreated the shitty performative dynamics of it all, making it about who is the most specialist popular princess with the most hideous Shein outfit on.
I've always found it funny how they call themselves "scene queens" even though they have absolutely nothing to show for it, and that term was always highkey an insult. It's like, I would never proclaim myself as a "poser" so why the fuck would I call myself a scene king... but whatever. 20k followers on tiktok does not a scene queen make, in my opinion. A lot of these kids don't have the ability to network themselves into actual notoriety because they're fucking rude!
They want to judge other people for not being "authentic" (skinny, white, etc) but they themselves do nothing but redefine what the scene actually was, and redefine who scenesters were as a whole. So odd. Just do your own thing for fuck's sake!!
discmaan_
First of all, I just want to say that this was genuinely one of the most interesting posts I've read here in a while. You can really tell how much research, personal experience, and passion went into writing this. It honestly felt less like a rant and more like a proper analysis of how subcultures evolve when they move from smaller communities into mainstream spaces
One thing I really liked about your post is that you didn't just romanticize the past. A lot of people talk about old internet communities like MySpace as if they were some perfect golden era, but the reality is that those spaces also had a lot of toxic things happening. Nostalgia can make people forget the bad parts. I think it's important to appreciate the creativity, friendships, and self-expression that came from those communities while still acknowledging the problems they had
The point about scene being more than just an aesthetic really stood out to me. I think this happens with almost every subculture once it becomes popular. Something that originally came from a specific community gets reduced into a Pinterest board, a fashion checklist, or a "personality type." The same thing has happened with goth, punk, metal, and many other scenes. People see the visual language but sometimes miss the history and the people behind it
I also really liked your point about labels being complicated. It's funny because subcultures often form as a rejection of fitting into boxes, and then eventually people create new boxes inside those communities. Humans really love categorizing everything, even things that were created to escape categorization
The part about gatekeeping was especially interesting because I think there is a difference between protecting a culture and using it as an excuse to make people feel unwelcome. Wanting people to understand the music, history, and community behind something is completely different from demanding that someone has the "correct" hair, body type, clothes, or background
Also, I really respect that you included your own experiences. It's easy to discuss communities from a distance, but your examples show how these ideas actually affect real interactions between people. The story about the person who started a kandi trade and the story about the person who rejected you are such a good example of the contrast between what these spaces can be and what they sometimes become
Anyway, thank you for writing this! I really enjoyed reading it. It was a fascinating look at not only scene culture, but also how the internet changes communities over time. I'd love to read your future post about the "Rawring 20s" revival too, because that sounds like another really interesting topic <33
InvaderPinnecone
Well said. It seems like most modern scene kids or anyone of an alternative subculture don't care about learning the history of the subculture they are in. It's honestly so annoying to because they genuinely belive what they are saying about the subculture is true. When they can't even tell you the history of there own subculture